>>DEAN: I would reverse in some areas.<<
>>First of all, 11 companies in this country control 90 percent of what ordinary people are able to read and watch on their television. That?s wrong. We need to have a wide variety of opinions in every community. We don?t have that because of Michael Powell and what George Bush has tried to do to the FCC.<<
>>MATTHEWS: Would you break up Fox?<<
(LAUGHTER)
>>MATTHEWS: I?m serious.<<
>>DEAN: I?m keeping a...<<
>>MATTHEWS: Would you break it up? Rupert Murdoch has ?The Weekly Standard.? It has got a lot of other interests. It has got ?The New York Post.? Would you break it up?<<
>>DEAN: On ideological grounds, absolutely yes, but...<<
(LAUGHTER)
>>MATTHEWS: No, seriously. As a public policy, would you bring industrial policy to bear and break up these conglomerations of power?<<
>>DEAN: I don?t want to answer whether I would break up Fox or not,
because, obviously<<
(CROSSTALK)
>>MATTHEWS: Well, how about large media enterprises?<<
>>DEAN: Let me-yes, let me get...<<
(LAUGHTER)
>>DEAN: The answer to that is yes.
>>I would say that there is too much penetration by single corporations in media markets all over this country. We need locally-owned radio stations. There are only two or three radio stations left in the state of Vermont where you can get local news anymore. The rest of it is read and ripped from the AP.<<
>>MATTHEWS: So what are you going to do about it? You?re going to be president of the United States, what are you going to do?<<
>>DEAN: What I?m going to do is appoint people to the FCC that believe democracy depends on getting information from all portions of the political spectrum, not just one.<<
>>MATTHEWS: Well, would you break up GE?<<
(APPLAUSE)
>>DEAN: I can?t-you...<<
<
>>MATTHEWS: We?ve got to do it now, because now is the only chance we can ask you, because, once you are in, we have got to live with you.<<
(LAUGHTER)
DEAN: No.
>>MATTHEWS: So, if you are going to do it, you have got to tell us now.<<
(CROSSTALK)
>>MATTHEWS: Are you going to break up the giant media enterprises in this country?<<
>>DEAN: Yes, we?re going to break up giant media enterprises. That doesn?t mean we?re going to break up all of GE.<<
>>What we?re going to do is say that media enterprises can?t be as big as they are today. I don?t think we actually have to break them up, which Teddy Roosevelt had to do with the leftovers from the McKinley administration.<<
(CROSSTALK)
>>MATTHEWS: ... regulate them.<<
>>DEAN: You have got to say that there has to be a limit as to how-if the state has an interest, which it does, in preserving democracy, then there has to be a limitation on how deeply the media companies can penetrate every single community. To the extent of even having two or three or four outlets in a single community, that kind of information control is not compatible with democracy.<<
>>MATTHEWS: How-how far would you go in terms of public policy?<<
(APPLAUSE)
>>MATTHEWS: This is not-what you describe is not laissez-faire.
It?s not capitalism.<<
>>DEAN: It is capitalism.<<
>>MATTHEWS: How would you-what would you call it?<<
>>DEAN: I am absolutely a capitalist. Capitalism is the greatest system that people have ever invented, because it takes advantage of bad traits, as well as our good traits, and turns them into productivity.<<
>>But the essence of capitalism, which the right-wing never understands
? it always baffles me-is, you got to have some rules. Imagine a hockey game with no rules.<<
(LAUGHTER)
>>MATTHEWS: Would you-would you<<
(CROSSTALK)
>>DEAN: Nobody benefits. Nobody benefits. So you have got to have reasonable rules. And the rules have to protect everybody in the game.<<
(CROSSTALK)
>>MATTHEWS: Do you protect-do you protect the right of the person to go work somewhere and not have to join a union? Do you accept the right of right-to-work states to say you don?t have to join a union.<<
>>Dick Gephardt sat here and came out and said he was going to say no more right to work and we get rid of 14B, get rid of Taft-Hartley, repeal that, and force people to have to join unions, where they?re organized.<<
(CROSSTALK)
>>MATTHEWS: Would you go along with that? Would you buckle to the unions u>>
DEAN: Would I buckle to the unions?<<
>>MATTHEWS: Yes, because the unions want you to do it.<<
>>DEAN: This isn?t a values-loaded question, by any chance, is it?<<
(LAUGHTER)
(APPLAUSE)
>>MATTHEWS: Well, let me ask it-let me ask it totally open. Do you think a person has a right to work somewhere if they don?t want to join a union?<<
>>DEAN: I do.<<
>>No, wait a minute. I don?t.<<
(LAUGHTER)
>>MATTHEWS: Why not? What?s wrong with an open shop where you can...<<
>>DEAN: I?ll tell you what?s the matter with it. Here is the problem with open-and, look, there?s obviously arguments to be made on...<<
>>MATTHEWS: A lot of states have right-to-work laws. You would get rid of them?<<
>>DEAN: I don?t like-well, I very much believe that states ought to have the right to recognize-to organize their own laws. So I?m not likely as president to-even though I don?t like right-to-work laws, I?m unlikely to order states to change them.<<
>>MATTHEWS: So you wouldn?t repeal 14B?<<
>>DEAN: No, I would not, but...<<
>>MATTHEWS: So you are different than Gephardt. He is with the unions.
You are not.<<
(LAUGHTER)
>>MATTHEWS: I?m serious.<<
>>DEAN: All right...<<
>>MATTHEWS: I hate it. It?s called HARDBALL. This isn?t ?Success? magazine, OK?<<
>>(APPLAUSE)<<
>>DEAN: Let me tell you what-I actually believe in card check. I believe you shouldn?t have to have an election, that people who want to join a union should just be able to sign a card and join it. Let me tell you where I am on...<<
(CROSSTALK)
>>MATTHEWS: You are against-you do not believe in repealing 14B?<<
>>You?re not going to accept the challenge from Gephardt to do that?<<
>>DEAN: If I got a bill on my desk that repealed 14B, I?d sign it in an instant. I?m just not going to push it hard...<<
>>MATTHEWS: OK.<<
>>DEAN: Because I do believe states have to have make their own judgments of that.<<
>>MATTHEWS: OK.<<
>>DEAN: I hate right-to-work laws.<<
>>And let me tell you why it?s OK to be forced to join a union. The union is out there negotiating for your wage increases. Why should you get a free ride? Why should you should be able to go to work for that company, get the same benefits as everybody else who paid their union dues and you paid nothing? That?s why I?m against right-to-work laws.<<
>>MATTHEWS: OK.<<
>>DEAN: But I do believe it?s important for states to be able to make their own laws.
>>MATTHEWS: You understand why a libertarian would disagree with you, right? A libertarian would think they had a right, he or she, to work where they can do the job.<<
>>DEAN: Yes, but why should they-but why should they get the benefits of everybody else who is paying dues and get a free ride?<<
>>MATTHEWS: Because it?s a free country.<<
(LAUGHTER)
(APPLAUSE)
